Trevor Shackles: Mark Stone Wanted to Stay a Senator Mark Stone was more than willing to re-sign in Ottawa

Melnyk is broke. The fan base has been dangerously diluted. Nothing changes until the ownership failure is corrected. An intervention on Melnyk's ownership would be appropriate. It is all about the money. He needs somebody to take over the debt and give him some cash to walk away.

This is harsh news that will only add to the feelings of alienation being experienced within the Sens fans base. Watch for Melnyk to go on Choke city radio and try and rationalize the failure to give Stone a fair contract. This situation is no different than the Karlsson negotiations and multiple other fails in getting contract negotiations settled.

Yes, bonuses were likely a hurdle, but let's not forget that a deal in tax-friendly Vegas would cost a lot more to achieve in Ontario.

It is only a matter of time before Chabot is traded, his ELC is ending soon so he will need a new contract, it is why the sens are signing more LD, The Sens are a NHL farm team for all NHL teams at this point. Then Tckachuk will be traded as his ELC ends.

I (franking) hate this owner. Stone would've been a great guy to have as captain and core vet in a rebuilding team.

The only way this trade becomes great is if Vegas needs to shed salary and we take Stone back. Which isn't going to happen as it would demonstrate great planning/cunning from this organisation.

I just wish Ottawa got lucky like Pittsburgh or Colorado and have players sign for bargain deals.

We can talk all day about Mark Stone being a good guy and all but fact is he was not willing to take a discount vs the market to play in Ottawa.

Not singing any praises at all towards the Senators Organization but if Ottawa wants to become dominant they will need players to sign for less than they are worth. Like MacKinnion, Crosby, Kessel, Ovechkin, Barkov, Marchand etc. who outperform their contracts.

I think it is partly because of Melnyk's horrible ownership and leadership that Ottawa could not convince Karlsson, Zibanejad or Stone to take a hometown discount. But I'm not going to let Stone off easy, if he truly wanted to play in Ottawa long term he would have signed for cheap.

I just wish Ottawa got lucky like Pittsburgh or Colorado and have players sign for bargain deals.

We can talk all day about Mark Stone being a good guy and all but fact is he was not willing to take a discount vs the market to play in Ottawa.

Not singing any praises at all towards the Senators Organization but if Ottawa wants to become dominant they will need players to sign for less than they are worth. Like MacKinnion, Crosby, Kessel, Ovechkin, Barkov, Marchand etc. who outperform their contracts.

I think it is partly because of Melnyk's horrible ownership and leadership that Ottawa could not convince Karlsson, Zibanejad or Stone to take a hometown discount. But I'm not going to let Stone off easy, if he truly wanted to play in Ottawa long term he would have signed for cheap.
- TDBSenatoR

We used to do this, before Melnyk got cheap.

We took a shot on guys like Karlsson and Turris and paid them more then they were worth at the time they signed their contracts, betting that they would continue to get better and that the deal would be good for us in the end and we got 6 years of Karlsson at 6.5 million and we got 5 years of Turris at 3.5 million. That's great value.

But then Melnyk got cheap/broke and we no longer gambled on players. We dished out short term bridge contracts to guys like Stone (3 years at 3.5 million) and Mike Hoffman (1 year at 2 million) and got burned on their next contracts when they continued to improve.

Bottom line is it all comes back to Melnyk's unwillingness/inability to invest in this team.

I just wish Ottawa got lucky like Pittsburgh or Colorado and have players sign for bargain deals.

We can talk all day about Mark Stone being a good guy and all but fact is he was not willing to take a discount vs the market to play in Ottawa.

Not singing any praises at all towards the Senators Organization but if Ottawa wants to become dominant they will need players to sign for less than they are worth. Like MacKinnion, Crosby, Kessel, Ovechkin, Barkov, Marchand etc. who outperform their contracts.

I think it is partly because of Melnyk's horrible ownership and leadership that Ottawa could not convince Karlsson, Zibanejad or Stone to take a hometown discount. But I'm not going to let Stone off easy, if he truly wanted to play in Ottawa long term he would have signed for cheap.
- TDBSenatoR

the deals you are talking about were all signed BEFORE those players had their "break out year". Ottawa had every opportunity to sign Stone to a "home town deal" and chose to go the 1 year route instead. No player ever signs for less than they are worth at the time....they can sign a fair deal at the time, and then they explode the following year, which makes the deal seem incredible. but at the time the deal was signed, it wasn't some incredible "home town discount". that is the case with literally every player you mentioned.

the Stone situation is 10000000% the fault of ownership and management and 0% on Stone.

Pure speculation on my part. But.

It seems that Melnyk's fortunes went South around a two significant events.

The company that represented a large part of his wealth (Biovail) went for a dump.

He had to settle a very expensive divorce proceeding where his ex-wife got her fair share of all his assets.

Melnyk got the hockey team and I believe the team now represents his single largest asset. I don't know but I wonder if he is also dependent on the team as his primary source of personal income.

Hard to believe he is able to sustain the current situation for much longer.

sorry

made a

mistake

Trevor Shackles: Mark Stone Wanted to Stay a Senator
Mark Stone was more than willing to re-sign in Ottawa
- Trevor Shackles

Oh good lord, really?

For the bajillionth time, the canned crap that a player says to a reporter means absolutely nothing. It does not reflect his true feelings.

Stone may have wanted to stay. Stone may have not wanted to stay.

Saying nice things about his former employer and team means absolutely nothing. It's the same generic crap that every player says about every team in every situation.

Did he call Ottawa fans some of the best in the league?

Did he say that his family really enjoyed their time there?

Did he wish them all the best?

Did he say that Ottawa needs to give 110%, take it one shift at a time and focus on doing the little things right?

Oh good lord, really?

For the bajillionth time, the canned crap that a player says to a reporter means absolutely nothing. It does not reflect his true feelings.

Stone may have wanted to stay. Stone may have not wanted to stay.

Saying nice things about his former employer and team means absolutely nothing. It's the same generic crap that every player says about every team in every situation.

Did he call Ottawa fans some of the best in the league?

Did he say that his family really enjoyed their time there?

Did he wish them all the best?

Did he say that Ottawa needs to give 110%, take it one shift at a time and focus on doing the little things right?
- Atomic Wedgie

In most situations I agree with you, but these comments make it sound like he was willing to stay for the right price, It was just too expensive for Melnyk.

I just wish Ottawa got lucky like Pittsburgh or Colorado and have players sign for bargain deals.

We can talk all day about Mark Stone being a good guy and all but fact is he was not willing to take a discount vs the market to play in Ottawa.

Not singing any praises at all towards the Senators Organization but if Ottawa wants to become dominant they will need players to sign for less than they are worth. Like MacKinnion, Crosby, Kessel, Ovechkin, Barkov, Marchand etc. who outperform their contracts.

I think it is partly because of Melnyk's horrible ownership and leadership that Ottawa could not convince Karlsson, Zibanejad or Stone to take a hometown discount. But I'm not going to let Stone off easy, if he truly wanted to play in Ottawa long term he would have signed for cheap.
- TDBSenatoR

I don't think any of those contracts were considered bargains when they signed. Yes these guys outperformed their contracts, but you look at where guys like Barkov, Mackinnon, and Marchand were when they signed, they have vastly improved and become more dominant since.

Not singing any praises at all towards the Senators Organization but if Ottawa wants to become dominant they will need players to sign for less than they are worth. Like MacKinnion, Crosby, Kessel, Ovechkin, Barkov, Marchand etc. who outperform their contracts.
- TDBSenatoR

This is a very important point. Emotional attachment aside, what sets the best teams apart is getting high value/dollar from the majority of their contracts, not by paying a collection of high-end players full-market value on new max-term extensions in their late 20's. Chicago is a great example of this - where they had to frequently purge supporting talent in order to sustain their elite core of Kane, Toews, Keith, and Seabrook during their competitive window, and they were successful to the tune of winning 3 Stanley Cups. That said, it's hardly a coincidence that once those 4 core players all concurrently started earning their high-end contracts the team hasn't won a playoff round since, and have only made the playoffs in 50% of those years. Worse yet, each member of that core are now between the ages of 30-35, and their contracts represent more than $33M/yr of cap space for the next 5 years. Kane is really the only one still worth the contract, and just happens to also be the youngest.

In the context of the Senators, I think people need to take a step back. An awful lot of people lamented Spezza leaving, but he's been one of the absolute worst value/dollar players in the NHL for the past 2 years... even on a deal that's considerably shorter in term than the one that most fans were clamoring for prior to the trade. Meanwhile, the long-term extension for Ryan has been one of the worst decisions in team history. Now I would agree that Karlsson, Stone, and Duchene are better players, however the point remains that paying them full market value for at least 2-3 years of bottom-dwelling chaos, followed by the uncertainty of how much they will all have left in the tank in their early-30's may not have been the best decision for a rebuilding team who instead might want to focus their attention on major long-term extensions for the likes of Chabot, White, and Tkachuk.

That said, I can't argue that it wouldn't have been nice to keep maybe 1 of the 3 around... if only for things like jersey sales, and promotional value.

Yes, bonuses were likely a hurdle, but let's not forget that a deal in tax-friendly Vegas would cost a lot more to achieve in Ontario.
- miser

That's mentioned in the article

Oh good lord, really?

For the bajillionth time, the canned crap that a player says to a reporter means absolutely nothing. It does not reflect his true feelings.

Stone may have wanted to stay. Stone may have not wanted to stay.

Saying nice things about his former employer and team means absolutely nothing. It's the same generic crap that every player says about every team in every situation.

Did he call Ottawa fans some of the best in the league?

Did he say that his family really enjoyed their time there?

Did he wish them all the best?

Did he say that Ottawa needs to give 110%, take it one shift at a time and focus on doing the little things right?
- Atomic Wedgie

Tell me, what reason does Stone have to lie here? He could've just given a non-descript answer and moved on. Furthermore, I'll believe Brent Wallace here too.

Oh good lord, really?

For the bajillionth time, the canned crap that a player says to a reporter means absolutely nothing. It does not reflect his true feelings.

Stone may have wanted to stay. Stone may have not wanted to stay.

Saying nice things about his former employer and team means absolutely nothing. It's the same generic crap that every player says about every team in every situation.

Did he call Ottawa fans some of the best in the league?

Did he say that his family really enjoyed their time there?

Did he wish them all the best?

Did he say that Ottawa needs to give 110%, take it one shift at a time and focus on doing the little things right?
- Atomic Wedgie

I think the big issue is not this deal in particular, but yet another player who is saying the complete opposite of what ownership is saying.

I just wish Ottawa got lucky like Pittsburgh or Colorado and have players sign for bargain deals.

We can talk all day about Mark Stone being a good guy and all but fact is he was not willing to take a discount vs the market to play in Ottawa.

Not singing any praises at all towards the Senators Organization but if Ottawa wants to become dominant they will need players to sign for less than they are worth. Like MacKinnion, Crosby, Kessel, Ovechkin, Barkov, Marchand etc. who outperform their contracts.

I think it is partly because of Melnyk's horrible ownership and leadership that Ottawa could not convince Karlsson, Zibanejad or Stone to take a hometown discount. But I'm not going to let Stone off easy, if he truly wanted to play in Ottawa long term he would have signed for cheap.
- TDBSenatoR

Let's bring this back to you then: would you be willing to stay with a company in your city despite them offering 15-20% less than a newer and better company? Let's be realistic here, he had a price that he knew was fair, and Ottawa couldn't match it. He doesn't owe Ottawa anything, and he negotiated with them until the final day.

Here we go again...yes melnyk is a scrub but nobody knows really what was discussed in negociations between Dorion and Stone except themselves.

All that Stone said is classic and is common breed by most players.

Stone is gone and i got over it...can you?

Oh good lord, really?

For the bajillionth time, the canned crap that a player says to a reporter means absolutely nothing. It does not reflect his true feelings.

Stone may have wanted to stay. Stone may have not wanted to stay.

Saying nice things about his former employer and team means absolutely nothing. It's the same generic crap that every player says about every team in every situation.

Did he call Ottawa fans some of the best in the league?

Did he say that his family really enjoyed their time there?

Did he wish them all the best?

Did he say that Ottawa needs to give 110%, take it one shift at a time and focus on doing the little things right?
- Atomic Wedgie

He said you have to play within the system, be patient and hopefully get a few bounces....

Seriously, great post because its 100% true. We can guess what happened but who gives a (frank). It's not going to change what happened.

I think it's fair to assume the following:

1 - Stone wanted fair market value for his services (i.e. no hometown discount).

2 - Stone did have a clear reason to negotiate actively with the Senators since he had already invested significant sweat-equity into the team over several seasons and because they were the only ones (at the time) who could offer him an 8-year deal.

3 - Stone, like Duchene, was interested in winning now and less interested in winning three years from now when he's further into (or past) his prime playing years.

4 - Stone, like the other UFAs, was somewhat worried about the financial and management state of the Senators - I refer to his comment about loving Vegas because their ownership was "invested in winning" or something to that effect.

I'm sure all of that went into his decision to take the Senators right to the wire in negotiating a new contract rather than trying to settle earlier in the year. And although the outcome was likely bittersweet for him, I'm equally sure that he loves where he's at now because he gets paid what he's worth, the organization is solid, and the team's management & facilities are excellent.

The trade return seems very good, assuming Brannstrom pans out. The true test of Ottawa's organizational will and commitment to winning will be if they can sign Chabot to a long term contract without that negotiation playing out like a soap opera. I'll withhold judgement until then. Not overpaying for unproductive years is an important concept for a rebuilding team. But so is team cohesion and retaining the right players. I believe the jury is still out on the Mark Stone verdict....

Here we go again...yes melnyk is a scrub but nobody knows really what was discussed in negociations between Dorion and Stone except themselves.

All that Stone said is classic and is common breed by most players.

Stone is gone and i got over it...can you?
- Laughinghyena666

It doesn't matter if I'm "over it" or not, this was a noteworthy quote that adds to the story and deserved to be written about